• 2003 Chevy Tahoe

    From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to All on Fri Jun 7 12:26:23 2013
    Looks like we're gonna have to put the Tahoe in the shop. We just changed the fuel filter on it last week because the engine would crank, but not turn over.
    The new fuel filter is not OE, but a Wix (I think) replacement. I drove it about 10 miles yesterday and we're back to square one -- crank but not run. It
    sounds to me like it isn't getting gas even though the tank is half full.


    Regards,

    Roger

    --- D'Bridge 3.94
    * Origin: NCS BBS (1:3828/7)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Roger Nelson on Fri Jun 7 13:59:24 2013
    Roger Nelson wrote to All:

    Looks like we're gonna have to put the Tahoe in the shop. We just
    changed the fuel filter on it last week because the engine would
    crank, but not turn over.

    'but not start' ?

    The new fuel filter is not OE, but a Wix (I think) replacement.

    Nothing wrong with a Wix, they make very good filters.

    I drove it about 10 miles yesterday and we're back to square one --
    crank but not run. It sounds to me like it isn't getting gas even
    though the tank is half full.

    Remove the tank and replace the fuel pump...this is a typical in-tank fuel
    pump problem...Some shops can R&R the tank without draining it. Yours is
    half full, so don't put anymore in it until it gets fixed. If you SIL is a mechanic, he should be able to do this in the driveway.



    R\%/itt


    --- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-31012
    --- D'Bridge 3.92
    * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, Done That! (1:387/22)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Roy Witt on Sat Jun 8 07:41:10 2013
    Roger Nelson wrote to All:

    Looks like we're gonna have to put the Tahoe in the shop. We just RW>RN> changed the fuel filter on it last week because the engine would
    crank, but not turn over.

    'but not start' ?

    That's right. The engine catches, but only for a brief period of a second and then dies.

    The new fuel filter is not OE, but a Wix (I think) replacement.
    Nothing wrong with a Wix, they make very good filters.

    So does Fram.

    I drove it about 10 miles yesterday and we're back to square one -- RW>RN> crank but not run. It sounds to me like it isn't getting gas even RW>RN> though the tank is half full.

    Remove the tank and replace the fuel pump...this is a typical in-tank
    fuel pump problem...Some shops can R&R the tank without draining it.
    Yours is half full, so don't put anymore in it until it gets fixed. If
    you SIL is a mechanic, he should be able to do this in the driveway.

    I know how to do all that stuff, but I've been limiting myself to changing spark plugs because of my knees. Also, I don't have a creeper and the necessary tools because I gave them all to my youngest son after he got out of the Marine Corps. Speaking of changing spark plugs, the Mercedes presents somewhat of a problem in doing that. (-:

    Anyway, I was afraid it might be the pump in the tank, but even worse would be the ECU! The one in my Lincoln died as no one can get a reading from it.


    Regards,

    Roger

    --- D'Bridge 3.94
    * Origin: NCS BBS (1:3828/7)
  • From TOM WALKER@1:123/140 to ROGER NELSON on Sat Jun 8 07:03:00 2013
    The new fuel filter is not OE, but a Wix (I think) replacement. RN>RW> Nothing wrong with a Wix, they make very good filters.

    So does Fram.

    Their Fuel Filters may be alright but not many rate their Oil Filters
    very high.
    The Wix is a Far better Oil filter filter as is the Purolator and Mobile
    1 Filters
    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ 0
    * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 Join Us: www.DocsPlace.org (1:123/140)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.71 to Roger Nelson on Sat Jun 8 11:07:11 2013
    On Fri, 07 Jun 2013, Roger Nelson wrote to All:

    Looks like we're gonna have to put the Tahoe in the shop. We just
    changed the fuel filter on it last week because the engine would
    crank, but not turn over. The new fuel filter is not OE, but a Wix
    (I think) replacement. I drove it about 10 miles yesterday and
    we're back to square one -- crank but not run. It sounds to me
    like it isn't getting gas even though the tank is half full.

    i would test the fuel pump to make sure it is operating properly... if it is, then test the fuel to make sure it doesn't have a bunch of water in it...

    )\/(ark

    --- FMail/Win32 1.60
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.71)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Roger Nelson on Sat Jun 8 10:05:08 2013
    Roger Nelson wrote to Roy Witt:

    The new fuel filter is not OE, but a Wix (I think) replacement.
    Nothing wrong with a Wix, they make very good filters.

    So does Fram.

    Not really. Wix happens to be the highest rated filter manf. Fram is
    forth rated stuff.

    I drove it about 10 miles yesterday and we're back to square one
    -- crank but not run. It sounds to me like it isn't getting gas
    even though the tank is half full.

    Remove the tank and replace the fuel pump...this is a typical
    in-tank fuel pump problem...Some shops can R&R the tank without
    draining it. Yours is half full, so don't put anymore in it until it
    gets fixed. If you SIL is a mechanic, he should be able to do this
    in the driveway.

    I know how to do all that stuff, but I've been limiting myself to
    changing spark plugs because of my knees. Also, I don't have a
    creeper and the necessary tools because I gave them all to my
    youngest son after he got out of the Marine Corps.

    This is why I said that your SIL can do it...

    Speaking of changing spark plugs, the Mercedes presents somewhat of
    a problem in doing that. (-:

    Told ya so...8^) Can't find um?

    Anyway, I was afraid it might be the pump in the tank, but even worse would be the ECU! The one in my Lincoln died as no one can get a
    reading from it.

    GM ECUs are very dependable, not invincible, but reliable.

    How many miles are on this one? Over 100k?

    Open the gas filler and have someone turn on the ignition. If the car has
    set a while, you should be able to hear the pump when the ignition is
    turned on, very briefly if the pump is good as it will shut off with back pressure from the fuel pressure regulator. If it doesn't come on and stays
    on, then it's probably defective.



    R\%/itt


    --- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-31012
    --- D'Bridge 3.92
    * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, Done That! (1:387/22)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Roy Witt on Mon Jun 10 05:20:11 2013
    Roger Nelson wrote to Roy Witt:

    I know how to do all that stuff, but I've been limiting myself to
    changing spark plugs because of my knees. Also, I don't have a
    creeper and the necessary tools because I gave them all to my
    youngest son after he got out of the Marine Corps.

    This is why I said that your SIL can do it...

    He can't, either. He wouldn't know where to start. (-:

    Speaking of changing spark plugs, the Mercedes presents somewhat of RW>RN> a problem in doing that. (-:

    Told ya so...8^) Can't find um?

    I didn't say that, but the answer is no. :-) My guess is that it will be pretty much the same as changing the plugs on the Lincoln.

    GM ECUs are very dependable, not invincible, but reliable.

    It wasn't that.

    How many miles are on this one? Over 100k?

    I don't remember. I know how many miles are on the MB, since I drive it all the time.

    Open the gas filler and have someone turn on the ignition. If the car has set a while, you should be able to hear the pump when the ignition is turned on, very briefly if the pump is good as it will shut off with back pressure from the fuel pressure regulator. If it doesn't come on and
    stays on, then it's probably defective.

    The SIL had a couple of mechanic friends come over yesterday, drop the gas tank
    (I think after performing the test you described above) and replaced the fuel pump. That did the trick, but I think he paid way too much for the pump -- over $200. However, what's done is done.

    My thanks to all who replied.


    Regards,

    Roger

    --- D'Bridge 3.94
    * Origin: NCS BBS (1:3828/7)
  • From TOM WALKER@1:123/140 to ROGER NELSON on Mon Jun 10 06:53:00 2013
    Open the gas filler and have someone turn on the ignition. If the car ha RN>RW> set a while, you should be able to hear the pump when the ignition is RN>RW> turned on, very briefly if the pump is good as it will shut off with bac RN>RW> pressure from the fuel pressure regulator. If it doesn't come on and RN>RW> stays on, then it's probably defective.

    The SIL had a couple of mechanic friends come over yesterday, drop the gas t RN>(I think after performing the test you described above) and replaced the fue RN>pump. That did the trick, but I think he paid way too much for the pump -- RN>over $200. However, what's done is done.

    My thanks to all who replied.

    That is in the ballpark. Those in tank pumps for some reason are very
    expesive.
    A quick Internet check shows a price range of $212 to $305.
    With the $305 being a genuine Delco
    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ 0
    * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 Join Us: www.DocsPlace.org (1:123/140)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Roger Nelson on Mon Jun 10 09:17:33 2013
    Roger Nelson wrote to Roy Witt:

    Roger Nelson wrote to Roy Witt:

    I know how to do all that stuff, but I've been limiting myself to
    changing spark plugs because of my knees. Also, I don't have a
    creeper and the necessary tools because I gave them all to my
    youngest son after he got out of the Marine Corps.

    This is why I said that your SIL can do it...

    He can't, either. He wouldn't know where to start. (-:

    I thought you said he was a mechanic.

    Speaking of changing spark plugs, the Mercedes presents somewhat
    of a problem in doing that. (-:

    Told ya so...8^) Can't find um?

    I didn't say that, but the answer is no. :-) My guess is that it
    will be pretty much the same as changing the plugs on the Lincoln.

    Ever been under the hood of a BMW 740 series? Those engine covers sure are pretty and they do a fine job of hiding the engine. Good thing you don't
    have to lift the car to change oil...it's all done under the hood. But
    where to start?

    GM ECUs are very dependable, not invincible, but reliable.

    It wasn't that.

    Didn't think it would be.

    How many miles are on this one? Over 100k?

    I don't remember. I know how many miles are on the MB, since I drive
    it all the time.

    Ballpark? I know there are over 76k on my pickup, but not the exact
    amount.

    Open the gas filler and have someone turn on the ignition. If the
    car has set a while, you should be able to hear the pump when the
    ignition is turned on, very briefly if the pump is good as it will
    shut off with back pressure from the fuel pressure regulator. If it
    doesn't come on and stays on, then it's probably defective.

    The SIL had a couple of mechanic friends come over yesterday, drop
    the gas tank (I think after performing the test you described above)
    and replaced the fuel pump. That did the trick, but I think he paid
    way too much for the pump -- over $200. However, what's done is
    done.

    $200 is pretty close to what they cost wholesale and considering how long
    they do last, probably worth every penny.

    My thanks to all who replied.

    Welcome, that's what we're here for.


    R\%/itt


    --- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-31012
    --- D'Bridge 3.92
    * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, Done That! (1:387/22)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Roy Witt on Tue Jun 11 05:49:35 2013
    On Mon Jun-10-2013 09:17, Roy Witt (1:387/22) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    He can't, either. He wouldn't know where to start. (-:

    I thought you said he was a mechanic.

    He works for the state's Child Protective Services.

    I didn't say that, but the answer is no. :-) My guess is that it
    will be pretty much the same as changing the plugs on the Lincoln.

    Ever been under the hood of a BMW 740 series?

    No.

    Those engine covers sure are pretty and they do a fine job of
    hiding the engine. Good thing you don't have to lift the car to
    change oil...it's all done under the hood. But where to start?

    Just like my Lincoln, then.

    How many miles are on this one? Over 100k?

    I found out last night the Tahoe has 130k on it. I barely have that much on the MB.

    Open the gas filler and have someone turn on the ignition. If the
    car has set a while, you should be able to hear the pump when the
    ignition is turned on, very briefly if the pump is good as it will
    shut off with back pressure from the fuel pressure regulator. If it
    doesn't come on and stays on, then it's probably defective.

    The SIL had a couple of mechanic friends come over yesterday, drop
    the gas tank (I think after performing the test you described above)
    and replaced the fuel pump. That did the trick, but I think he paid
    way too much for the pump -- over $200. However, what's done is
    done.

    $200 is pretty close to what they cost wholesale and considering
    how long they do last, probably worth every penny.

    I priced one online last Saturday for $90. The one he got was an Airtex.

    My thanks to all who replied.

    Welcome, that's what we're here for.

    (-:


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From TOM WALKER@1:123/140 to ROGER NELSON on Tue Jun 11 08:18:00 2013
    The SIL had a couple of mechanic friends come over yesterday, drop
    the gas tank (I think after performing the test you described above) and replaced the fuel pump. That did the trick, but I think he paid way too much for the pump -- over $200. However, what's done is
    done.

    $200 is pretty close to what they cost wholesale and considering
    how long they do last, probably worth every penny.

    I priced one online last Saturday for $90. The one he got was
    an Airtex.

    teh Aritex costs $235 here i nSan Diego

    Considering that the Fair Price in in the $200 price raqnge I don't
    think I wpoudl trust a $90 fuel pump.
    Cheep at ANY Price can lead one down the road to disaster.
    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Typo Tom Strkes Again
    * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 Join Us: www.DocsPlace.org (1:123/140)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to TOM WALKER on Tue Jun 11 15:15:17 2013
    On Tue Jun-11-2013 08:18, TOM WALKER (1:123/140) wrote to ROGER NELSON:

    The SIL had a couple of mechanic friends come over yesterday, drop
    the gas tank (I think after performing the test you described above) and replaced the fuel pump. That did the trick, but I think he paid way too much for the pump -- over $200. However, what's done is
    done.

    $200 is pretty close to what they cost wholesale and considering
    how long they do last, probably worth every penny.

    I priced one online last Saturday for $90. The one he got was
    an Airtex.

    teh Aritex costs $235 here i nSan Diego

    That's about what the SIL paid for it. Those guys dropped the gas tank, waited
    for the rain to stop, installed the pump, waited for the rain to stop, reinstalled the gas tank, test drove it and that was that.

    Considering that the Fair Price in in the $200 price raqnge I don't
    think I wpoudl trust a $90 fuel pump.
    Cheep at ANY Price can lead one down the road to disaster.

    Neither would I. (-:


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Roger Nelson on Tue Jun 11 17:58:11 2013
    Roger Nelson wrote to TOM WALKER:

    I priced one online last Saturday for $90. The one he got was
    an Airtex.

    teh Aritex costs $235 here i nSan Diego

    If you can afford to wait, Summit Racing sells the AirTex for $220, free shipping and no sales tax.

    That's about what the SIL paid for it. Those guys dropped the gas
    tank, waited for the rain to stop, installed the pump, waited for the
    rain to stop, reinstalled the gas tank, test drove it and that was
    that.

    Considering that the Fair Price in in the $200 price raqnge I don't
    think I wpoudl trust a $90 fuel pump.
    Cheep at ANY Price can lead one down the road to disaster.

    Neither would I. (-:

    I'd trust it if it was a NIB genuine GM fuel pump. There are others online
    for a mere $62 and change which I'd question the origin of and the
    'rebuilder' origin if that cheap one is a rebuilt pump.


    R\%/itt


    --- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-31012
    --- D'Bridge 3.92
    * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, Done That! (1:387/22)
  • From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to Roy Witt on Wed Jun 19 15:53:10 2013
    I'd trust it if it was a NIB genuine GM fuel pump. There are others
    online
    for a mere $62 and change which I'd question the origin of and the 'rebuilder' origin if that cheap one is a rebuilt pump.

    Speaking from experience in dealing with cheap parts, go with the more expensive trusted part. Especially when the work involved to replace the part is extensive.

    I was burned by "Made In China" wheel bearings that I installed in my Monte Carlo years ago. They lasted just a month or so over (1) year before falling apart.

    After re-replacing them, went with a "Made In USA" Timken bearing, and been going strong for 3+ years and counting.

    Costs about $40 more than made in China garbage, but that is a small price when
    you consider it takes hours each time to replace.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.50
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to Mark Hofmann on Thu Jun 20 11:45:46 2013
    Mark Hofmann wrote to Roy Witt:


    I'd trust it if it was a NIB genuine GM fuel pump. There are others
    online
    for a mere $62 and change which I'd question the origin of and the
    'rebuilder' origin if that cheap one is a rebuilt pump.

    Speaking from experience in dealing with cheap parts, go with the
    more expensive trusted part.

    I wouldn't go that far...like an engineer told me once; when they receive
    bids for work from vendors, they throw out the lowest and the highest bid,
    then consider all of those inbetween.

    I always look for a bargain when it comes to buying parts, but almost
    always reject anything made in China. It used to be that way with Japanese parts some 40+ years ago, but they have come a long way since. Even they
    don't buy Chinese parts, but have their's made in South Korea, where labor
    is cheap and Japanese quality requirements is followed.

    Especially when the work involved to replace the part is extensive.

    I had replaced the starter in my 72 Chevy Cheyenne with rebuilt starters
    from a local parts store. They lasted about a year and then failed. The
    starter was cheap enough to buy, but the labor to replace it was mine and
    I don't like to do any more than I have to.

    I was burned by "Made In China" wheel bearings that I installed in my Monte Carlo years ago. They lasted just a month or so over (1) year before falling apart.

    That's about right. 8^)

    After re-replacing them, went with a "Made In USA" Timken bearing,
    and been going strong for 3+ years and counting.

    You could have used a Japanese bearing and had the same quality, but less
    cost. I used to rebuild IBM hard drives (12" discs) and used a Japanese
    bearing in place of the original. They were just as good. The bearings
    that IBM used had to be bought in matched pairs and cost an arm and a leg.
    I used non-matched bearings and had no complaints.

    In fact, this was for the outfit where I aquired 'Bertha' an old milling machine that came in handy for machining automotive heads as well as the
    deep sea sonar heads I made for a local company in San Diego.

    Costs about $40 more than made in China garbage, but that is a small
    price when you consider it takes hours each time to replace.

    Buying American is good practice, but good American is sometimes hard to
    come by. I always try to buy American, but there are things that just
    aren't made here anymore.


    R\%/itt


    --- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-31012
    --- D'Bridge 3.92
    * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, Done That! (1:387/22)
  • From TOM WALKER@1:123/140 to ROY WITT on Fri Jun 21 09:29:00 2013
    You could have used a Japanese bearing and had the same quality, but less RW>cost. I used to rebuild IBM hard drives (12" discs) and used a Japanese RW>bearing in place of the original. They were just as good. The bearings RW>that IBM used had to be bought in matched pairs and cost an arm and a leg. RW>I used non-matched bearings and had no complaints.

    Well in some cases "matched bearings" are manditory if one does not want
    a early failure. I am thinking of my experieces with Gyroscopes used in navigation equipment. They of course spun up much higher speeds than the
    Old Hard Drives, Up to 24,000 RPM
    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ 0
    * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 Join Us: www.DocsPlace.org (1:123/140)
  • From Roy Witt@1:387/22 to TOM WALKER on Fri Jun 21 13:24:13 2013
    TOM WALKER wrote to ROY WITT:

    You could have used a Japanese bearing and had the same quality, but
    less cost. I used to rebuild IBM hard drives (12" discs) and used a
    Japanese bearing in place of the original. They were just as good.
    The bearings that IBM used had to be bought in matched pairs and
    cost an arm and a leg. I used non-matched bearings and had no
    complaints.

    Well in some cases "matched bearings" are manditory if one does not
    want a early failure.

    These IBM HDs were 512k on 5 or 6, single sided 12" discs...I collected
    bad discs and drilled a hole in them and used the very large center hole
    as a picture frame.

    The hub on which the HD discs rode was extra heavy duty and required the invention of a special tool to remove the top bearing (which was glued
    into place with #609 loctite). I still have that tool, as it was a very innovative design that I designed and made. This tool saved hours of disassembly time, which made the rebuilding procedure take 8 hours, just
    for one hub. With the tool, we could do 7 to 8 per day.

    I am thinking of my experieces with Gyroscopes used in navigation equipment. They of course spun up much higher speeds than the Old
    Hard Drives, Up to 24,000 RPM

    I don't recall the speed of the hub, but it rode on 6001 series bearings,
    which are very stable at lower speeds. I think that once assembled, the
    hub was originally balanced with the discs mounted. They did the balancing
    by drilling a series of holes in it. Not exactly gyroscopic protocol.
    Anyway, we never re-checked the balance.


    R\%/itt


    --- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-31012
    --- D'Bridge 3.92
    * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, Done That! (1:387/22)
  • From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to Roy Witt on Sun Jun 23 17:51:10 2013
    I always look for a bargain when it comes to buying parts, but almost always reject anything made in China. It used to be that way with
    Japanese
    parts some 40+ years ago, but they have come a long way since. Even they don't buy Chinese parts, but have their's made in South Korea, where
    labor
    is cheap and Japanese quality requirements is followed.

    Only buy a Chinesse part if you intend on selling your car to your worst enemy.
    :)

    I had replaced the starter in my 72 Chevy Cheyenne with rebuilt starters from a local parts store. They lasted about a year and then failed. The starter was cheap enough to buy, but the labor to replace it was mine and
    I don't like to do any more than I have to.

    Yes, even if it is my labor, I certainly hate doing the same job over and over again because of a junky part.

    Buying American is good practice, but good American is sometimes hard to come by. I always try to buy American, but there are things that just aren't made here anymore.

    Yes, try to find a TV made in America. I try to buy everything that is made in
    the USA - but some things they just don't make here anymore.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.50
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)